So. A girlfriend of mine was talking the other week about some kids that she knows and how they see their parents naked on a fairly regular basis (I guess the parents sleep in the nude and the kids are very casual about that and it shocked my friend). She told me about it in that "Can you believe those evil troll parents?!" tone of voice and vented about how it was inappropriate, and how some people just didn't know about setting up boundaries.
I gave her the stink eye. As best I could over the phone. Perhaps not that effective, but the thought was there.
"Bear sees me naked just about every day," I told her.
"He does not," she denied, a bit of the nasty in her voice.
"Okay, think about it. We got one bathroom in our house and it sits between the two bedrooms."
"Oh, like you don't close the door."
"Seriously. Every morning I take a shower, and I leave the door open because CD has already left for work so I need to be able to hear the Bear," I point out. "And sure as God made little green apples, the sound of my shower wakes him up with an urge to pee and in he comes. And you know that he's going to stick his face around the shower curtain to make sure it's me in there. No matter how many times I tell him not to do that."
"You need to make sure he knows that it is wrong to peep on you in the shower."
"Wrong?" If I knew how to verbally lift an eyebrow, just one, I so would have.
"Wrong. After a certain age it is wrong to be naked in front of your children, especially those of the opposite sex."
"Why?"
"Why what?"
"Why is it wrong?"
"Are you serious?"
"Yes. Explain it to me."
We were quiet for a long moment. "He isn't respecting your boundaries," she said.
"Yes, and that IS a problem. But not the naked. The naked is not the problem. Bear loves to be naked, he thinks his body is a miracle, and we're all for that. Bodies are miracles."
"By 5, though..."
"What? Are we talking sexuality or nudity? Because they are different topics. Someone tries to get sexual with my kid, and I'm taking a cleaver to them. But I think that the nudity level we have in the family is really quite healthy. We happen to be fairly modest people in a house full of windows so it's not like we're prancing about doing interpretive ballet in our birthday suits. Well, not CD and I - Bear would be naked all the time if let him but that's just not feasible."
"So you admit there are standards?"
"What is there to admit? I mean, naked because you're changing or bathing is very appropriate. Sleeping naked when it is 100 degrees out is more than healthy - it's a necessity. Naked because CD and I are being intimate? That's completely unacceptable. Do we flaunt our bodies? No. But I don't lock Bear out of my room in the mornings when I am getting dressed, either."
"And that's teaching him not to respect the privacy of his body or yours. You're desensitizing him to sexuality," she accused.
"Are you kidding me?"
"I'm serious, Elizabeth."
This has just been bugging me ever since. Does nakedness hurt children after a certain age? And if so, why?
Reminder....
It's "de-lurking Friday", so please let me know you were here and I'll do the same for you! Thanks.
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Tagged: Corporate, Mommy, Life
I have to say that Americans are so prude about nudity. It's bizarre. My mom is German and I was never taught to feel shame about nudity. My boys both see me naked regularly, not because I want them to, but because they will come in when I'm showering (glass doors) or changing. I think it would be much worse if i made a big deal about it than casually asking them to please give me some privacy.
And my 4 yr old? LOVES being 'nekky'. He would run around all day sans clothing if permitted.
Does your friend have children? I only ask because it is very hard to have children and not at least be "caught" by them. Like you said at 5 you're talking about nudity - not sexuality. It's about the individual families comfort level.
I was here the other day and so wanted to comment on this issue- but I couldn't because you broke your comments! Glad you got 'em fixed.
My husband is not modest at all. As kids, his girls always felt comfortable talking with him if he was in the tub or if they were. I was always very modest growing up, so I was surprised and a little uncomfortable with the situation when I met him. I didn't know if it was really appropriate for them to see their dad in the tub. But like clockwork, my oldest stepdaughter turned 12 and suddenly the modesty clicked in. Now she wants privacy and wants it for everyone else. It occured very naturally. Recently, my younger stepdaughter turned 12 and the same exact thing happened. No pressure, no weirdness. And now they have a great disgust for their friends who freak out when a body part appears on the TV movie screen. "It's just bodies!" they say. "What is their problem?!" (Of course, we still make sure they're not seeing the bodies DOING anything together!)
Your child will let you know when nakedness becomes an issue. I couldn't believe I had worried over nothing.
Hey Elizabeth! Delurking, even though it's now Tuesday. I stopped by to catch up this weekend and things had clearly gone awry with your site :) Looks much better now.
My parents raised me like you are raising Bear. I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Your friend is a prude!
I think your approach to nakedness is very healthy; I wish my parents had been so open. Instead I thought nakedness was dirty. When it's time to relate nudity to sexuality, you'll know, but it would overwhelm Bear to add that knowledge now.
What does interest me is how Bear (doesn't) respects your boundaries. I assume he's at some sort of school for at least part of the day, and he must have boundaries there. I would start teaching him about the boundaries that you and CD expect, as well as the boundaries he has which you and CD will respect.
I think you got a couple of years before the nudity becomes inappropriate. You'll know when that is. Let the naysayers raise their own children to be prudes.
Great post! I think that if you feel you are doing something 'wrong' by being nude in front of your children then YOU shouldn't do it. But come on! Shouldn't we be teaching our kids that not all nudity is sexual? I love the relaxed 'naturalness' view of the body they have in Europe. I think too many people get hang ups about their bodies when they feel like their skin is something they have to hide away!
In Sweden, walking around nude is completely normal. In fact, in the summertime family and friends often meet up at some of the many lakes and seasides and engage in that old-fashioned practice of skinny-dipping. It's simply not seen as abnormal, not respecting boundaries, etc. It is the body and the body is natural.
If all parties are ok with that, then cool. Everybody's happy. I for one am terribly modest and don't really see myself walking around nude, but Angus did it around his kids and they didn't care. Your point was good-sexuality? Not to be exposed to. Nudity? Quelle problem?
It's about individuals. Your family is happy the way it is and, like you said, Bear is happy with himself, which is absolutely the best outcome.
I agree with the previous commenters who've said that you're helping Bear develop an understanding of the difference between nudity and sex. It's an important distinction that's sadly lacking in much of our society.
Wishing you luck on Monday.
I think that you're *helping* him get good distinctions between nudity and sex - they are so often conflated in the US that this is a hard thing for many people to get.
I think context-appropriate nudity is a great thing - there are a lot of reasons to be naked that aren't sexual, and those are fine to share with kids.
AndI hope you have a rocking weekend, hearty and hale.
Nude is art, Naked is Naked and Naked in an erotic pose is well neither nude nor naked but only appropriate in the confines of consenting adults. I remember when Adelaide was little and living downstairs, about 5 years old and every time she came upstairs and Uncle Mike was in the shower she'd rush in there and watch him shower. The father of daughters that he was, he'd just ignore her. He did mention that she never did that when I was in the shower. I reminded him that she had my model at home.
love and kisses - Autie Marfa
It's strange, but I was just remembering when I was doing a church visit many years ago they were having a "mother's group" meeting while I was there and I remember the leader saying that exposing children to nudity throughout their lives and not instilling a strong sense of modesty would lead to precocious sexuality and possibly sexual promiscuity or addiction.
I wasn't a parent yet and was a visitor representing another faith ao I definitely felt I should keep my mouth shut. But I do remember their were both some kind of statistics and scripture referred to. I just don't remember what they were.My gut tells me that if we are healthy but as always, I second guess myself.
Your house sounds about like mine in terms of nakedness. I have a 3 1/2 yr old girl and a 15 month old boy. They both like being naked, as do most of their friends. Husband and I are fairly casual about the whole nudity thing; I just don't think it's that big of a deal and in fact, I don't want the kids to have hang ups about it. I have known some adults who won't undress in front of their spouses, for instance. We did decide that my husband needs to put on a pair of shorts when he gets out of bed to deal with the 3 yr old in the middle of the night; I guess that's a concession to modesty we've made.
Like some of your other posters, I really believe that at a certain age the kids will impose the boundaries they need.
Good luck on Monday.
I think you are a great mom and should do what feels right for you.
I really enjoy reading your blog. I've been lurking for over a month now. I feel for you on your job situation and hope it all works out the way you want it to. I think they've treated you horribly!
I think the delineation between "naked" and "sexuality" is a really vital one. There's a big difference.
My kids are 14, 11 and 5. We've not made a big deal about nakedness, being naked, etc. Of course, we live on a farm,with no close neighbors. Potty training was super easy (go water a tree!). I've found that the kids naturally gain some modesty about 7 or 8...they don't want us to help them bathe and they don't run into the bathroom or bedroom without knocking first. This, without any discussion or boundaries set down by us. The five year old still checks to see if I'm actually in the shower but he's learned to stay out of the bathroom if his older brother or sister are in there. He often comments about how annoying they are about this "since I'm just a little kid".
When I was 15 or 16, I used to babysit two neighborhood kids. One, a boy, was 3 or 4 years old. His dad kept a stack of Playboy magazines in the bathroom, and little Kris used to talk about "titties" all of theim time. I think that's wrong. But what you're doing is normal and healthy and up to your judgement. That's my two cents. BTW, I lurk every day. ;-)
No advice, just stopping to say that I hope you have a good weekend. :)
I don't know if it hurts them or not, but it makes me, personally, uncomfortable. Of course, my son is 17 now. LOL
I say, he's your kid, it's your life, what works for you is the right answer.
And I'm here everyday, in some form or fashion. Had no idea about the "de-lurking" day festivities. Til now, of course.
Delurking! Am completely on your side--and kids become more modest on their own when they feel it's necessary for them. . . and heaven knows, our repressed society (which seems to equate nudity with sexuality) hasn't seem to done our citizens any favors. . . hello, church scandals! hello, peeping toms! jeez. BTW, your writing is quite wonderful--you've moved me to tears in the cube zoo more than once.
De-lurking for your Friday comment day...
Funny, I just took a shower with my 3 yr old boy this morning. For the lets do two-for-one-to-get-to-school-in-time type of shower. I think it's a healthy awareness of bodies.
I bet if you were in a different country it wouldn't even be a discussion anyone would have with you. I agree with Suzanne, I think your friend may have some hang-ups.
By the way, I really love your writing. Your stories (ie. your life) have moved me. Thanks.
First time checking out the site - I really like it. My daughter is one and nakedness is an issue I have been considering. I'm very comfortable with it but my husband is less ( I think because we have a daughter) It'll be interesting to see if my feelings change if I ever have a boy. However right now I'm trying to raise my daughter to be more comfortable with and knowledgable about her body then I was.
I'm totally with you on this and all your other commenters! I think what you're doing (which is the same thing I do with Caleb) is much healthier than teaching him his body or yours or anyone's is something to be ashamed of.
I have 2 boys - 4 & 5 years old - and they still poke their heads in and talk to me when I'm in the shower, and have 4 million things to tell me while I'm dressing. It is much more important to them that they can communicate with me - they couldn't care less whether I'm dressed or not. They see both my husband and I naked and I don't see any problem with it. There's nothing sexual about it - they're just our bodies.
If you are comfortable, and Bear is comfortable, it's all good. I am still naked in front of both my kids, but last week was my last "together" bath with my 3 year old daughter. Not that I think it's hurting her, but because I was feeling uncomfortable. She still sees me naked plenty, though. We stopped letting her see her Daddy a while ago, but not in a "It's a terrible, shameful secret" kind of way. I just wasn't comfortable with it.
My child and future hypothetical children are more than welcome to peek behind the shower curtain before they use the potty, especially if it eases their fears that there is no boogey man in the shower waiting for the perfect moment to pounce on said potty peeping tom.
Now if mommy and daddy are in the shower together, then I can see it posing a bit more of a problem.
Happy Friday, E.
Hello!
My two cents: I think that rather than desensitizing him to sexuality, you are keeping the difference between sexuality and nudity clear.
There are cultures with psychologically healthy people who spend a lot more time naked than we do. There are cultures that don't get all bent out of shape by a body, and don't automatically think of sex if they see a body part.
As for privacy...clothes do not inherently guarantee privacy, and nakedness doesn't necessarily mean lack of privacy. Plus, I have the impression that parents of young children have pretty much given up on the notion of privacy for several years, wether they are wearing clothes or not! Kids just don't catch on the the concept of mommy and daddy needing privacy until they are a bit older than 5.
I think it is good that you do not shut the door, and that you are available to him if he needs something, especially times when you are the only adult in the house.
If nakedness is bad for children, don't take them to an Italian cathedral. Or to Paris, with all those naked statues. Oh my!
Whatever - you're friend has some other issue there I think.
We saw our parents naked all the time. Not in a "oh my god my parents are having sex" kinda way. More of a "mom's in the shower" kinda way.
Of course - I have been accused in my adulthood of being naked a little TOO much.
Whatever works for you and your family seems like the right way to be.
Just saying hello per your request!
No kids so my opinion isn't tried and tested. However, I agree with the trust your gut advice. Bear will know when he feels wierd! And so will you.
I'm with all the other posters. Nudity and sexuality are different and regardless of what she says, I think she's confusing/combining them. As for boundaries, it would be interesting to know if she A) has children and B) if yes, how long it has been since they were little. Because I have 2 under 6 and I have yet to come up with a reason that THEY accept as to why it isn't OK to walk in on Mommy whenever they feel like it.
Rants are good, caltechgirl. Rants are healthy. I rant to my plants all the time, and if they were real I am SURE they would thrive on it!
;)
I'm here but have no wisdom. Mia is always thrilled to see me naked because I am still her food source.
Helloo, here I am.
It's time to stop when HE is acting awkward about it. Or when you feel awkward about it. It will be completely clear at the time.
Naah. You were right when you said there's a difference between nudity and sexuality. As long as Bear learns that there are "appropriate" times to be naked (like in the shower), then it really doesn't matter.
When he thinks it's inappropriate, he'll stop looking in the shower. Right now, he doesn't care that you're naked. All he cares right now is that Mommy's there. Most people don't give kids credit for these things. But soon enough he'll shut you out of the room while he's dressing and stop coming into the bathroom while you shower. On his own.
Why would nakedness hurt a kid anyway? It's not like they don't have their own naked moments. It's not like they don't need to know that boys and girls have different parts.
Your own gut should be your guide. If you and CD are happy with things as they are, who cares what anyone else says? You know what is going on with your kid, whether he's comfortable, and how he responds to what he sees better than anyone else. If it was a question of discipline, would you give your friend's opinion as much credence?
